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Mon, 17 Dec 2018 17:07:26 -0800

We can definitely make our own WTF::Optional instead of using std::optional and 
change its move constructor/operator= and I personally think that would not be 
worth it but if I¡¯m in the minority I¡¯ll deal with it.  We cannot diverge from 
the C++ standards that say that moving from an object leaves the object in an 
undefined state, and right now in WebKit we are relying quite a lot on that 
undefined state.  I think that is the bigger problem that Chris was trying to 
solve.

> On Dec 17, 2018, at 4:32 PM, Ryosuke Niwa <rn...@webkit.org> wrote:
> 
> Let me add this.
> 
> The situation we have here is analogous to having a member function "move()" 
> which leave std::optional in undefined state as in:
> 
> std::optional<int> a;
> std::optional<int> b = a.move();
> 
> would leave a in some undefined state. I don't care what C++ standards say or 
> what STL does. That's insane.
> Every object should remain in a well defined state after performing an 
> operation.
> 
> - R. Niwa
> 
> 
> On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 4:22 PM Ryosuke Niwa <rn...@webkit.org 
> <mailto:rn...@webkit.org>> wrote:
> It's true that WTFMove or std::move doesn't do anything if the moved variable 
> is not used because WTFMove / std::move is just a type cast.
> 
> However, that behavior is orthogonal from the issue that calling WTFMove / 
> std::move on std::optional, and the returned value is assigned to another 
> std::optional, the original std::optional will be left a bad state.
> 
> I completely disagree with your assessment that this calls for the use of 
> std::exchange.
> 
> 
> On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 3:55 PM Alex Christensen <achristen...@apple.com 
> <mailto:achristen...@apple.com>> wrote:
> Let me give a concrete example on why, even with our nice-to-use WTF types, 
> the state of a C++ object is undefined after being moved from:
> 
> #include <wtf/RefCounted.h>
> #include <wtf/RefPtr.h>
> #include <iostream>
> 
> class Test : public RefCounted<Test> { };
> 
> void useParameter(RefPtr<Test>&& param)
> {
>   RefPtr<Test> usedParam = WTFMove(param);
> }
> 
> void dontUseParameter(RefPtr<Test>&&) { }
> 
> int main() {
>   RefPtr<Test> a = adoptRef(new Test);
>   RefPtr<Test> b = adoptRef(new Test);
>   std::cout << "a null? " << !a << std::endl;
>   std::cout << "b null? " << !b << std::endl;
>   useParameter(WTFMove(a));
>   dontUseParameter(WTFMove(b));
>   std::cout << "a null? " << !a << std::endl;
>   std::cout << "b null? " << !b << std::endl;
>   return 0;
> }
> 
> // clang++ test.cpp -I Source/WTF -L WebKitBuild/Debug -l WTF -framework 
> Foundation -L /usr/lib -l icucore --std=c++17 && ./a.out                      
>      
> // a null? 0                                                                  
>                                                                               
> // b null? 0                                                                  
>                                                                               
> // a null? 1                                                                  
>                                                                               
> // b null? 0                                                                  
>                                                                              
> 
> 
> As you can see, the internals of callee dontUseParameter (which could be in a 
> different translation unit) affects the state of the local variable b in this 
> function.  This is one of the reasons why the state of a moved-from variable 
> is intentionally undefined, and we can¡¯t fix that by using our own 
> std::optional replacement.  If we care about the state of a moved-from 
> object, that is what std::exchange is for.  I think we should do something to 
> track and prevent the use of moved-from values instead of introducing our own 
> std::optional replacement.
> 
>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 2:47 PM, Ryosuke Niwa <rn...@webkit.org 
>> <mailto:rn...@webkit.org>> wrote:
>> 
>> Yeah, it seems like making std::optional more in line with our own 
>> convention provides more merits than downsides here. People are using 
>> WTFMove as if it's some sort of a swap operation in our codebase, and as 
>> Maciej pointed out, having rules where people have to think carefully as to 
>> when & when not to use WTFMove seems more troublesome than the proposed fix, 
>> which would mean this work for optional.
>> 
>> - R. Niwa
>> 
>> On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 2:24 PM Geoffrey Garen <gga...@apple.com 
>> <mailto:gga...@apple.com>> wrote:
>> I don¡¯t understand the claim about ¡°undefined behavior¡± here. As Maciej 
>> pointed out, these are our libraries. We are free to define their behaviors.
>> 
>> In general, ¡°undefined behavior¡± is an unwanted feature of programming 
>> languages and libraries, which we accept begrudgingly simply because there 
>> are practical limits to what we can define. This acceptance is not a mandate 
>> to carry forward undefined-ness as a badge of honor. In any case where it 
>> would be practical to define a behavior, that defined behavior would be 
>> preferable to undefined behavior.
>> 
>> I agree that the behavior of move constructors in the standard library is 
>> undefined. The proposal here, as I understand it, is to (a) define the 
>> behaviors move constructors in WebKit and (b) avoid std::optional and use an 
>> optional class with well-defined behavior instead.
>> 
>> Because I do not ?? security updates, I do ?? defined behavior, and so I ?? 
>> this proposal.
>> 
>> Geoff
>> 
>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 12:50 PM, Alex Christensen <achristen...@apple.com 
>>> <mailto:achristen...@apple.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> This one and the many others like it are fragile, relying on undefined 
>>> behavior, and should be replaced by std::exchange.  Such a change was made 
>>> in https://trac.webkit.org/changeset/198755/webkit 
>>> <https://trac.webkit.org/changeset/198755/webkit> and we probably need many 
>>> more like that, but we are getting away with relying on undefined behavior 
>>> which works for us in most places.
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 11:24 AM, Chris Dumez <cdu...@apple.com 
>>>> <mailto:cdu...@apple.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 11:10 AM, Chris Dumez <cdu...@apple.com 
>>>>> <mailto:cdu...@apple.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 10:27 AM, Alex Christensen <achristen...@apple.com 
>>>>>> <mailto:achristen...@apple.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 14, 2018, at 1:37 PM, Chris Dumez <cdu...@apple.com 
>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:cdu...@apple.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> As far as I know, our convention in WebKit so far for our types has 
>>>>>>>>>> been that types getting moved-out are left in a valid ¡°empty¡± state.
>>>>>> This is not necessarily true.  When we move out of an object to pass 
>>>>>> into a function parameter, for example, the state of the moved-from 
>>>>>> object depends on the behavior of the callee.  If the callee function 
>>>>>> uses the object, we often have behavior that leaves the object in an 
>>>>>> ¡°empty¡± state of some kind, but we are definitely relying on fragile 
>>>>>> undefined behavior when we do so because changing the callee to not use 
>>>>>> the parameter changes the state of the caller.  We should never assume 
>>>>>> that WTFMove or std::move leaves the object in an empty state.  That is 
>>>>>> always a bug that needs to be replaced by std::exchange.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Feel like we¡¯re taking about different things. I am talking about move 
>>>>> constructors (and assignment operators), which have a well defined 
>>>>> behavior in WebKit. And it seems you are talking about WTFMove(), which 
>>>>> despite the name does not ¡°move¡± anything, it is merely a cast.
>>>>> In the case you¡¯re talking about the caller does NOT call the move 
>>>>> constructor, it merely does a cast so I do not think your comment 
>>>>> invalidates my statement. Note that in my patch, I was nearly 
>>>>> WTFMove()ing the data member and assigning it to a local variable right 
>>>>> away, calling the move constructor.
>>>> 
>>>> Also note that may of us already rely on our move constructors¡¯ behavior, 
>>>> just search for WTFMove(m_responseCompletionHandler) in:
>>>> free online bettinghttps://trac.webkit.org/changeset/236463/webkit 
>>>> <https://trac.webkit.org/changeset/236463/webkit>
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