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Wed, 09 Jan 2019 07:01:16 -0800

The files made available as 'Wikimedia dumps' are not intended to be a full
backup. And indeed that is not their purpose. People do set up mirrors
using these dumps from time to time, though I have not done so recently.

Actual honest-to-goodness backups (database snapshots) are another thing
altogether and one of the Wikimedia DBAs may want to talk about that.

Ariel

On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 4:52 PM Risker <risker...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Without in any way suggesting that David's and Fae's question is
> inappropriate....I suspect that the people most likely to have used/tested
> the backups are not people who follow this list; they're much more likely
> to participate on technical lists.
>
> It's actually a pretty good question, and Ariel Glenn of the WMF may be the
> best person to ask since they seem to be managing the process of making the
> files available.
>
> Risker/Anne
>
> On Wed, 9 Jan 2019 at 06:44, F? <fae...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Location: This is a tangent, one that has been raised before as a
> > /non-answer/ to the issue of actually getting on with contingency
> > planning. Realistically I would start by looking at the potential
> > matches of Sweden, Switzerland, the Netherlands (where servers already
> > are used for WMF operations), or lastly and for very different
> > reasons, Peru.
> >
> > What I find weird, or bizarro, is that the responses so far are vague
> > dismissals for non-good fantastic reasons, at the level of "let magic
> > blockchain technology solve it for free", rather than taking on board
> > that preparing a hot switch for Wikimedia operations in a welcoming
> > host country, is a highly cost effective disaster contingency plan,
> > whether due to natural disasters in San Fran / Florida / Amsterdam, or
> > due to national government using its legal authority to freeze, switch
> > off or tamper with content due to politically inflated "security" or
> > "emergency" issues. The risks are real and predictable, and as a
> > globally recognized charity with plenty of money in the bank, the WMF
> > should have contingency plans to ensure its continued existence, as
> > any professional business actuary would advise.
> >
> > As a past IT auditor, what also made the hairs prick up on the back of
> > my neck, was David Gerard's sensible question "So ... when did someone
> > last test putting up a copy of the sites from
> > the backups" - Could someone give a real answer to that please? If
> > it's never, then wow, we all have to ask some hard questions of the
> > WMF Board of exactly how they hold senior management to account.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Fae
> > --
> > fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> >
> > On Tue, 8 Jan 2019 at 23:05, Nathan <nawr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Fae,
> > >
> > > I'm curious what nation you have in mind for your stable Plan B. Is it
> > > Brexit Britain? France of the Yellow Vests and Front National? Perhaps
> > > Orban's Hungary, Putin's Russia, or Germany with its recent right-wing
> > > resurgence?
> > >
> > > Maybe you'd prefer Jair Bolsonaro's Brazil? I suppose in Italy we'd
> worry
> > > about Beppe and criminal libel statutes, while BJP would hardly seem
> > > welcoming in India and I can't imagine you'd suggest a home on the
> other
> > > side of the Great Firewall.
> > >
> > > Maybe you're hinting at Canada, but otherwise, I'd love to understand
> > what
> > > island of liberal stability and legal safeguards you think is safe from
> > the
> > > vagaries of electoral politics or rigid authoritarianism.
> > >
> > > The countries I list above have their own flaws (although in each
> case, I
> > > believe, many desirable traits as well) as does any other alternative.
> > > Anyone could reasonably argue it's unfair to stigmatize any of them by
> > > glaringly public flaws.
> > >
> > > To my mind Steve Walling has it right - the very nature of Wikipedia is
> > > maybe the best protection there could be, even against the absurdly
> > > unlikely circumstance of a United States government takeover of
> > Wikipedia.
> > >
> > > Nathan
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 12:17 PM F? <fae...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dear fellow Wikimedians, please sit back for a moment and ponder the
> > > > following,
> > > >
> > > > For those of us not resident in the US, it has been genuinely
> alarming
> > > > to see highly respected US government archives vanish overnight,
> > > > reference websites go down, and US legislation appear to drift to
> > > > whatever commercial interests have the loudest current political
> > > > voices. Sadly "populism" is happening now, and dominates American
> > > > politics, driving changes of all sorts in response to politically
> > > > inflated and vague rhetoric about "security" and "fakenews". It is
> not
> > > > inconceivable that a popularist current or future US Government could
> > > > decide to introduce emergency controls over websites like Wikipedia,
> > > > virtually overnight.[1][2][3][4]
> > > >
> > > > The question of whether the Wikimedia Foundation should have a hot
> > > > switch option, so that if a "disaster" strikes in America, we could
> > > > continue running Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons from other countries
> > > > has been raised on this list several times over many years. The WMF
> > > > and its employees are heavily invested in staying in Silicon Valley,
> > > > and that will stay true unless external risks become extreme.
> > > >
> > > > However, there has never been a rationale to avoid investing in a
> Plan
> > > > B. A robust plan, where the WMF can switch operations over to a
> > > > hosting country with a sufficiently welcoming with stable national
> > > > government and legislation, that our projects could continue to meet
> > > > our open knowledge goals virtually uninterrupted and without risk of
> > > > political control. A Plan B would ensure that if the US Government
> > > > started to discuss controlling Wikipedia, then at least that
> published
> > > > plan would be a realistic response. If they tried doing it, we could
> > > > simply power off our servers in the USA, rather than compromise our
> > > > content.
> > > >
> > > > If anyone knows of committed investment in a practical WMF Plan B, it
> > > > would be reassuring to share it more widely at this time. If not,
> more
> > > > of us should be asking about it, politely, persistently but perhaps
> > > > less patiently than indefinitely. :-)
> > > >
> > > > Links:
> > > > 1. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46739180
> > > > 2. http://www.lse.ac.uk/ideas/research/updates/populism
> > > > 3.
> > > >
> >
> https://www.cnet.com/news/obama-signs-order-outlining-emergency-internet-control
> > > > "... this order was designed to empower certain governmental agencies
> > > > with control over telecommunications and the Web during natural
> > > > disasters and security emergencies."
> > > > 4.
> > > >
> >
> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/01/presidential-emergency-powers/576418
> > > > "The president could seize control of U.S. internet traffic, impeding
> > > > access to certain websites and ensuring that internet searches return
> > > > pro-Trump content as the top results."
> > > > 5. Bizarro, as used in the title of this email:
> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bizarro_World
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Fae
> > > > --
> > > > fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > > >
> > > > ________fae...@gmail.com
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae_______________________________________
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> > --
> > fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
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